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  • So I found a low budget Granblue deck online for about 30$ and I picked it up because new support will be coming in some months, it lacks the important expensive stuff like Ripple Banshee or Greed Shade but I figured might as well get a base to work from when the new support comes.

    It was somewhat of an impulse buy, but I ended up with Granblue, Great Nature, and Tachikaze. It all goes full circle.

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    • So here’s the thing, greed shade and ripple banshee are probably two of like 4 or 5 cards that’ll actually make it into the next version of the deck outside of triggers/starter.

      And their price is only gonna go up. A better base would have been just buying greed shade honestly

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    • Yeah I quickly figured that out but I'll probably keep it as a low budget deck depending on what the new support is. I'm keeping Great Nature and Nubatama as my main decks I use for local tournaments, my other decks are the typically the low budget variants like Tachi being Gigarex with no Anger Blader.

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    • I mean, Nightrose is around the corner so the words Granblue and budget won’t exactly go together. Even now the deck needs Greed, Ripple, Ruin, and Romario to have a fighting chance against decks so I can’t imagine playing it without them. I get it’s budget but that’s just my two cents

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    • For now I'll keep it on the back and wait to see what the new support is, they've been doing a reasonably good job giving decks secondary builds besides the expensive ones that need the new VR so if they give Granblue that it'll probably be the route that I take.

      Like for Genesis, I intially picked a Trial Deck and most of the Astral Poet stuff except Astraios because it's grossly overpriced and planned to rely on the VEB13 support but then turns out that support will also be very expensive so I ended up switching the deck to a Himiko build. Not only have I been doing better with Himiko, but I'll only need two cards from the next set to update the deck both of which will likely be under a dollar.

      I guess we'll have to wait and see what Granblue brings. It's not like I'd be using the deck for competitive events or anything, it'd be mostly for play at locals so that's also why I don't want to invest much on it.

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    • lol, full circle indeed.

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    • The Vanguard Youtubers are putting banlist prediction videos and giving a Choice Restriction to Anger Blader and Sweeperacrocanto is a rather popular suggestion. I wouldn't mind that at all, I completely took out Anger Blader from my deck because I don't like that card at all and now focus strictly on Gigarex, Crocanto is a solid but not unfair card in that deck, it's mostly Anger Blader that breaks Crocanto. That restriction would also make Anger Blader still function without being so dumb.

      Regardless I'd much rather see Choice Restrictions over outright Bans.

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    • Today at locals I played against Riviere for the first time and even though I only won 2 games out of 6 I didn't find Riviere herself that annoying, however I do think the deck is absurdly consistent, it seemed next to impossible for that deck to brick.

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    • too be fair elly and ichi kinda needed that to happen if anything sweeper isnt bad istead on choice restricting sum people said limiting it to 1-2 copies was good enogh so that way u onlyhave 1 high powered unti thats swinging on the anger blader turn plus i think anger blade is good, cause it sets up gauge to to finish your opponent with gigarex and his damage dealing skill. plus if anything needs to get banned its gastile since the ability to copy any 2 DI skills is going to limit any futre DI support in the furtyre since any good vr DI unit would immediely become a target to be abused by gastille which means DI can pop up again at anytime in the meta when they get good support so banning it future proofs it. others that i agree with are limiting katrina, choice restricting v series rivere with trois in premium, wslashers unique marker restriction where if u run g series wonder ezel in your deck you cant use accel 2 markers, and limiting shirayuki outright

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    • Don't know anything about those because premium never became a thing over here. But I did watch that Wlasher video and gift marker restrictions sounds like an interesting idea.

      Sweeper with Anger Blader is dumb but with Gigarex is a valuable rg because you can safely stack gauges on it for the burn effect then Gigarex can return it to at least 3 gauges again. Yesterday I tested a bit how Gigarex would work without Sweeper just in case and it mostly remains the same only the old issue of opponent killing your rg with most gauges to avoid the burn damage happened again.

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    • fair i still think anger blader and gigarex is a goood combo because anger can charge guage and get rid of problem cards on the board and then giga rex can clean house after. im not saying remove it completely but 1 or 2 copies in the deck isnt bad cause it nervfs the consistency by a lot and those swings are less than effective

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    • Gigarex is quite good, it's just that everyone ignores it for Anger Blader and that deck only runs 4 G3s so it can shove in more G2s. The Anger Blader deck is better I won't even argue that but I like how Gigarex plays more, it's not a highroll "I win immediately" and it's more flexible on either going aggro or building resources. Also Gigarex works nicely with Dark Rex and that's a bonus for myself.

      The main issue Gigarex always had was that it charges gauges during the battle phase then the opponent would kill your rgs with gauges so the burn damage rarely worked, but now with all the new early game and main phase gauge effects getting the burn is very reliable, often going off twice in one game. I've been experimenting with 8 Fronts and it does work quite well, Fronts work better when the opponent is at 5 damage which Gigarex does and burning the opponent compensates for not running Crits.

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    • I might sound salty here, but I'm glad they utterly nuked Anger Blader into oblivion. They also left Sweeper untouched for Gigarex which is arguably the best result I could hope for.

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    • Now we wait and see if we'll get Anger Blader v2

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    • Bushi probably thought stacking 3 gauges on 2+ rearguards as soon as you ride Anger would be difficult and that would be enough of an early game restriction but clearly that wasn't the case.

      Regardless I'm fine sticking with Gigarex and if anything I've been using Tachi more often again.

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    • yea ad you gave tachi way more ways to charge guage becasue that was thier problem originally that set fixed it and gave them a powerful boss that took advantage of it, plus they had a controllable loop going it jus did wayyy too much

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    • The original problem was that most gauge charging was during the battle phase and after riding to G3 so the opponent would always kill the rgs with gauges making Gigarex's burn effect completely unreliable to where it wasn't even worth trying to use and instead you'd use Gigarex to fuel your Blightops and Megarex.

      What the deck needed was either more ways to charge gauge in the early game or during the main phase, we got exactly that with Raging Tactics plus Sweeper which makes for an excellent target to stack gauges into safely. But like a lot of Accel decks Bushi overcompensated with how much gauge you can get so quickly now, because of that Anger Blader's "3 gauge on rg" requirement was too easy to do.

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    • they did that alot with accel decks last year and look what happened

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    • Accel was considered the worst Imaginary Gift when Standard began, they were inconsistent, lacked any decent resources so they died quickly and bricked often, and defensive triggers often ended an Accel deck's entire turn immediately.

      Bushi decided to fix that by giving Accel decks better support but clearly they went overboard and Accel became oppresive because they can naturally attack more times than Force or Protect simply by having 4+ columsn and now could attack with big numbers and do so more consistently. Now it looks like Bushi is focusing more on Force for a while.

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    • which is good and it will hopefully restore the rps balance we had so basically the little things each clan does gives them a leg up on the others

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    • Protect kinda saw the opposite, it was considered too good with OTT and later Angel Feather so Bushi seems to have overbalanced Protect decks with more restrictions or slower support. The nature of Protect being generally decks that play a slower game and aim to win by outgrinding the opponent while setting up a big turn makes them worse when fast Accel decks that kill quickly became the norm.

      I've been doing decently well with Nubatama because Hanzo can hard counter Accel decks that overcommit to the field but the deck often struggles to close out games with it's not so great aggresion. Kokushigarasu helps and can be an instant win if timed well but keeping 2 PGs ain't that easy.

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    • but the reason why ott was so good back in the day was because standard was in its infancy so slower decks could thrive more effectively and take use of it since games last 4-6 tuns you could easily grind a game out to the point where you can finish off the opponenet , protect can still do that but it still needs way better defensive pices in order to reach that point

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    • That's indeed true, it also doesn't help that there are only six Protect clans overall. For as much as a meme as Protect II is it's not that hard to figure out that Bushi gave Protect the worst Gift II because at the time a free PG was considered too good when most decks could only attack 3 times per turn and the ones that could multiattack were inconsistent.

      If the new Angel Feather support is anything to go by though Bushi might be willing to make Protect better, we'll have to wait and see what they have for OTT, DI, and Granblue in the near future.

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    • true i always thought it was wierd protect had the lowest pool, cause i get why link joker couldnt be a protect clan (cause that wouldve been the worst thing ever), but some other clans couldve been protect or we could introduce new clans to increase the pool later on

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    • I've been doing relatively well with Nubatama because constantly nuking the opponent's field and crippling their hand size slows them down enough that I can grind out a win, problem however is the deck's lackluster aggresion also means the opponent can grind despite the lack of resources.

      Coincidentally, most of my opponents often thought Hanzo get +10k/crit instead of +20k and I really wish it was the former, that extra crit would be huge when the opponent's hand is small and would give you a reason to use Hanzo's skill when the opponent is at G2, you might not discard their hand but you'd get that crit and refresh your field.

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    • fair nough but then again nubatama had jamyocongo and we all kno wat happened with that card in premium. plus nuba tama seems like those decks were if it got too much consistency it would become degenrate because the clans whole play style is hand ripping the opponent which is a playstyle you have heavily regulate

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    • Jamyocongo helps when going first but you can't afford to set on it for more than one turn. My build runs Magatsu Gale and Tsunamasa to rush in the early game so ideally they'd be at 4 damage when I use Hanzo, add Jamyo to keep their hand small so it's harder for them to grind.

      Kokushigarasu is the big push to utterly cripple the opponent leaving them with zero hand but as I mentioned keeping those 2 PGs can be tricky, Fried Chicken also needs the opponent to be at 3 or 4 damage when you use it otherwise you risk them surviving by no guarding your attacks then you're dead because you ditched 2 PGs.

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    • fair but u kno its not like nubatama can jus use dominate anymore cause rinne congo was degenerate

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    • I think that just letting Nuba's rg columns hit a bit bigger would help a lot without being degenerate, multi-attacking when the opponent has barely any hand and no field would be dumb but atttacking for more than 18k with the rgs would be fine and make the deck better.

      For that matter Magatsu's multiattack after Jamyo left the opponent at 4 hand is often game if the opponent is at 4 damage but that combo is very slow which I think is rather fair.

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    • yea which evens it out they need something like malkuth that bounces n gives a buff for units bounced

      while everyones waiting on nuba tama im waiting on royals to be somewhat competitive

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    • What Nuba really needs is a top 7 searcher for Zangetsu, without it the deck can brick really hard because it's the only token generator that gives them boost.

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    • royals need that 2 lol its like bushi really doesnt want protect to have good stuff yet it seems, so well see what ott and rumy labyrinth gets in their upcoming setss

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    • The meta shifting away from Accel at least to some extent does help Protect, because if the better decks don't multiattack that much then Protect I becomes valuable. For example Chronofang is scary but only attacks three times and you get a free PG to deal with it every turn.

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    • i mean but dont forget shadow paladin can come up a tier now since it can make high powered multiattacks plus danger lunge, chronojet has sentinel restrict and a nasty combo with a grade 1, kagero can come back up, and murakumo is still pretty viable, and narukami, and maybe mayyybe genesis

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    • Multiattacking will still be a thing for sure but it being slightly less prevalent should give Protect somewhat of a breathing room.

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    • yea cause atlest when force has it it will be balanced

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    • Force's multiattacking tends to be more restricted or  have bigger costs, like Shadow Paladin can only attack with Blaster Dark which technically is a vanilla they're forced to run or Claret Sword which has a very heavy and specific cost.

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    • Can NN get multiattack pls

      if we got a restander VG that cost retire 3 tokens and got drive -1 I wouldn't complain TBH

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    • As far as I know the only multiattacking Protect has is Magatsu Storm, No Life King, and Fifth Element both of which require a big amount of setup.

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    • Granblue has so much potential for multi attack. Like all we need is an on attack call from DZ and bam field reset

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    • exactly n they do crazy multi attacking in premium with megido

      i jus want royals to get a consistent way to do it and some gotdang resist

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    • Skull Dragon will make multiattacking for Granblue trickier to design, that thing hits huge for free.

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    • true maybe thats why they cant give it since that thing jus gets stupid huge for no reason, plus i hope bushi doesnt do sevenseas rush again tho shivers

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    • Seven Seas Rush is a clear example of players using a deck in a way that wasn't intended to be possible, though you could say the same about any form of grade stalling in general.

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    • thats something with card games in general honestly thats why i say most tcgs should let people beta test their products before they release them out to the masses, so they can find out the abuse before said product gets released, and fix it beforehand, or improve quality of some cards

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    • True. It's not hard to figure out that Bushi didn't expect players to intentionally grade stuck themselves so the opponent cannot use their skills when they designed Legion, then they did the exact same mistake when Stride came and with Stride grade stalling became common practice with players even making decks specifically desgined to grade stall which was a really bad thing.

      We did see Bushi make some attempts to combat grade stalling but the root of the problem was that initial design oversight.

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    • yea spreeze became a thing which helped woith that problem but it only did so much

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    • I always saw Sebreeze as a band aid rather than a solution. I also never used it because all my decks back during G era were legacy decks that weren't entirely G break reliant.

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    • tht was pne of my gripes with g era because if your deck couldnt stride due to grade locking everything jus became vanilla and that was ridiculous

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    • That began with Legion era with those "When your Vanguard is Legion" cards that would later become GBreak. You could somewhat get around it by still using Break Ride era cards to counter grade stalling and because you couldn't Legion going first, also doing a Legion Break Ride was huge if the deck in question allowed it.

      It was trickier with Stride though because that was somewhat of a soft reboot outside of Legacy support and in some cases those Legacy decks barely used any old cards, it was mostly a new deck based after an old one.

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    • Last weekend there was a guy playing Gear Chronicle proxying the new Mystery Flare support. Renovate Wing is dumb, every time he drew that card he'd get the 19 Bind and extra turn without fail, at the same time however every time he didn't get Renovate Wing his deck bricked and barely got over 7 Bind and he was still running most of the bind cards. I get the feeling the deck will become too reliant on Renovate Wing and that can be an issue.

      Also he said Chronojet completely replaces Lost Legend and I have to agree, he didn't bother using the CB2 draw skill a single time and instead used that CB for Il-Kabu/Irkab/howeverthatwillbespelled to get more drive checks.

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    • u got it right the first time and plus that card is good it generates advantage for u going second and onwards, thtas y i run 6 draws in my gears deck cause once the deck gets to grade 3 they can pressiure the opponent and keep a consistent amount of defense

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    • yea i realized that but ateast with legion you had freedom to use other stuff i once used pure heart ashlei break rided into thing saver then jus proceeded to do the loop and gg one of my fave old school moments, that and they butterly grade 3 that when my opponent went 2 to pass i check a grade 3 then a crit and break the shield, and playing MLB man i miss mlb

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    • There were two times where the guy used Renovate Wing and called another one, that more or less already gave him all the Bind Zone. He often called triggers with Renovate Wing but that hardly mattered when he had two turns in a row.

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    • true cause ur losing all ur hand anyway might as well go all in for the combo, but still gears needs alot for the mystery flare, they need atleast 2-3 more units that bind, or have a macro cosmos rear guard, that way they can do it alil bit easier so they can put pressure to the opponent, some got dang hand filtering, and least likely to happen bushi increases the upper deck limit from 50-60 cards

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    • So that Granblue """deck""" arrived. It's... functional, it can do the same big Vanguard + 2 huge Skull Dragons board that the full version does but it takes a lot more resources and is significantly slower.

      Granted it's what I expected, it's not really a deck but rather a base that I'll turn into a deck when the next wave support arrives, though a guy lend me his playset of Greed Shade for a bit of playtesting and that alone made the "deck" significantly better so I'll try to get some of those later.

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    • yea greed shade does wonders for the clan in  general, butt i have a high probability nightrose is coming back so i hope it does milling as well as recyling so when u mill triggers you can put them back

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    • Milling 2 crits twice in one game also reminded me of my mixed feelings towards topdeck milling. My old Seven Seas deck before it was murdered by the G1 rush deck getting most of the important staples limited was built to have as little milling as possible with stuff like Obadaiah giving more controlled foolish burials.

      For the new style of Granblue however milling is a necessary evil given the 10+ Drop Zone mechanic.

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    • imm thinking mill filter u mill 2 cards then put 2 cards back which is an exchange that sets up ur drop zone

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    • OG Chappie the Ghostie back in the day was very valuable for milling what you needed.

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    • thts y foolish burial is limited in yugioh and has been for so long jus getting something u need out of the deck and thinning is jus good utility like what altmile does for royals

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    • King Boo was a triple Foolish Burial which was huge but after a while it came too slow for a first stride and by then I had already dropped Granblue because of the banlist hitting the G1 rush deck and killing regular Seven Seas in the process.

      I'm also convinced the reason Seven Seas didn't get anything decent in the Rummy Labyrinth set and why Granblue stopped getting support altogether after that set was because of the G1 rush deck.

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    • cause they didnt want a repeat of what happened originally atleast with the new stride rules that can never happpen again

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    • More collateral damage courtesy of the G1 rush deck.

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    • its more of those situations where the play is to blame rather than the company because they made the combo possible, where as bushi just gave them the cards, its alot how yugioh works in some capacity

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    • The same can be said about grade stalling as a whole, that was never supposed to be a thing but players figured out and exploited an oversight in the design of both Stride and Legion.

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    • thts more of common sense where hey im going first n if i ride to grade 3 then doesnt my opponent get to use stride n legion?  if idont ride this turn i can jus do it on my next turn, and not die, its like what kenji said before the game shifted from going second to going first, but thats less of an issue now

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    • The game was always designed to make the player want to get to G3 as soon as possible, OG era we had those G3 that would superior ride themselves. It's safe to assume that when Bushi designed Legion they didn't think players would go "wait, if I decide not to ride on purpose then my opponent won't be able to legion!" because the design always had that mindset of wanting to get G3. Stuff like Sebreeze and eventually the stride ruling change are a pretty clear sign that Bushi didn't like grade stalling either.

      Granted going first and reaching G3 before the opponent also gives way more advantage just like Legioning/Striding first did but at least in that case the player is reaching G3 as the game design intended.

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    • true but when u ma,ke skills that are powerful and are locked behind a certain threshold it jus says to a player maybe i should hold off till now

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    • It'd be dumb if they made a rule where if you're G2 or below and don't ride you have to reveal to your hand to opponent that you really can't ride just to deal with that

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    • so basically make a rulle stating that if ur grade 2 or below riding is mandatory during the ride step unless stated other wise to prevent grade stalling, that couldve been imlemented before to stop seven seas rush insted of restricting stuff, but now that the stride ruling was fixed and the guard ruling its alil bit better now id say

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    • It makes more sense to restrict stuff than to change the rules for the sake of avoiding restrictions.

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    • fair nough

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    • but honestly the restriction list this time around  came with so much salt but it was well needed cause i say this again worlds 2019 was so horrible and oppressive it wasnt even funny and that should never happen again, so if u need to make a big list go for it jus so long as something like that never happens again

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    • People complained that Anger Blader was too harsh of a hit for Tachikaze but that was the problem card so it needed to be hit. Hitting Sweeper wouldn't have done much because Tachi has plenty of cards that can get/give the same +5k per gauge effect so the deck would've just run those are more copies to replace Sweeper, sure those other cards wouldn't have resist but you'd still be standing 2-3 gigantic beatstick while the opponent is at G2 which is what made the deck unfair.

      Hitting Anger Blader pretty much kills the highroll deck and Tachi is no longer meta but the clan is still more than playable with Gigarex and more importantly it's a fair deck now.

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    • exactly this is coming from a yugioh plaayer that under stands the harshness of banlists, hitting anger was future roofing, hitting hyugas wouldve just killed murakumo before they got support later on, pale moon can still play but less degeneratly, an soo on and so forth, like on the surface ppl complain about lists but their actually more healthy than jus powercreeping cards

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    • Speaking of yugioh that game's banlist has a habit of hitting everything except the problem card, stuff like Firewall Dragon or Sky Striker Engage which take too long to be hit when arguably they should've been the first thing to be hit. I'd much rather they kill the real problem card than they try some workaround that doesn't fix the problem because the problem card is still there, granted it was still Bushi's screw up for creating the problem card in the first place but at least the problem is fixed.

      Although there's one ruling change that I do think would help, in CF ZERO the player going second gets to draw 2 cards on their first turn, implementing that to the main game would help the going first problem more than Quick Shield will.

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    • well its still an extra card in hand when u go second to do anything with its useful for paying costs, and again this is the first wave of new mechanic, we cant expect things to be good out the gate.

      And actually yugioh jus started doing before when they made banlists they would absolutely give decks the axe, but instead of doing that they tried to take a lighter approcach by nitpicking other cards to slow the deck down and stop the combos which they thought would be sure solutions to the problem, and it didnt work. before when a deck was really good like teledad, pepe(in this case it was the same situation as riviere like a month after it cam out in english they hit the key cards of the deck) , and zoo, they banned everything in 1 list and if they started to be a problem later they would cut it off too, alot of people complained about it too a degree, so  thats what led to konami being less executioner, and more slap on the wrist

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    • The First Vanguard errata does suggest that the basic Quick Shield will be the only thing you'll get going second, unless there's a second version with the same name so effects still work on it kind of like IGift IIs having the same card name as the standard IGifts.

      Riviere getting Errata'd instead of hit might be because the card was so new.

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    • yea thtas probably going to be the case or theyere will be more effects tht let u get ordersbesides the first vg, which is coming later, i really want this month to be over lol so i can jus get to the royal stuff

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    • A FANDOM user
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